2 questions: 1. MIDI feedback data --- 2. MIDI data resolution (14-bit)

Hey guys,
maybe these are newbish questions… so please be aware. :innocent:

Is the HYPNO capable of sending MIDI feedback data (to another device)?
A handy feature if you want to turn encoders without value jumps.

Is the HYPNO capable of receiving and sending 14-bit (resolution) MIDI data?
…for maximum smoothness when it comes to automation…

If so, awesome!
If not, would it be possible to include these “features” in a firmware update?

Thanks for your help. :kissing_heart:

Not 100% on these but from what I’ve tried the Hypno doesn’t send any midi data out.

Good question about the midi resolution, using a slow LFO on the zoom you can see fairly clear jumps, because even with 128 values it isn’t going to be as smooth as controlling via the fader or CV.

1 Like
  1. It is possible but not currently implemented.
  2. Doubled CCs hack/14 bit midi is not implemented. ( I have never seen a piece of hardware that supports this so im not sure how i would even test that)

Is there a question? I’m confused. Think about MPE and hardware controller…
Here is a small explanation how 14-bit MIDI works (in a nutshell):

Don’t think of it as a number 0…16383. Instead think of it this way. Your 14 bits are divided into two 7-bit chunks: the Most Significant Byte (MSB) and the Least Significant Byte (LSB). Each of these goes from 0…127, but to make things simple to conceptualize, imagine them as each going from 0…99. Now imagine a decimal number, where the MSB is on the left hand side of the decimal point, and the LSB is on the right hand side. So if your MSB is 92 and your LSB is 53, you’d have the value 92.53.

That’s what’s getting sent to your synthesizer. 92.53. If your synthesizer is only 7-bit, it’s going to ignore the LSB entirely and just treat the value as 92.0. And if your controller sends only 7-bit data, then what the synthesizer will receive is 92.0 anyway, because all it got was the MSB. Thus you can think of the LSB as an “optional fine tuning” of the primary value (92).

The way this data is sent to the synthesizer matters. The first 32 CC numbers (0…31) send out MSB values as usual, but the second 32 CC numbers (33…63) are meant to send out the LSB of the corresponding first 32 numbers. For example, CC number 36 sends the LSB corresponding to the MSB which was sent out by CC number 4. (4 + 32 = 36). All CC numbers greater than 63 are always 7-bit only.

If you want to send out a 14-bit value on CC#4, the system first sends out the MSB on CC#4, then sends out the corresponding LSB on CC#36. One interesting item: if you want to send out another 14-bit value on CC#4, and the MSB is the same as the last time you sent out CC#4, you can just send another LSB (no MSB) on CC#36 and be done with it.

If Korg had done things correctly, a 10-bit resolution would work like this. Take our imaginary example where the MSB and LSB each went 0…99. Now imagine that Korg’s 10-bit resolution actually only goes from 0…999. What we’re going to do is take the MSB and multiply it by 10. Now your values 0…99 gets transformed to 0…990. The LSB will be used to fill in the rest: we’ll strip off the 1’s digit (divide the LSB by 10), so the LSB’s 0…99 gets transformed to 0…9. Now we just add the modified MSB (the coarse tuning) to the modified LSB (the fine tuning) to get a number from 0…999. In short, the MSB gives you the 100’s and 10’s digit of your Korg value, and the LSB gives you the 1’s digit.

Of course the values aren’t multiples of 10, they’re binary. So technically, The MSB’s 7 bits would get mapped to the 10 bits of the Korg, and the the most significant 3 bits of the LSB would fill in the rest. Let’s say that your 14-bit value is 4333. This is 01000011101101, so the MSB is 0100001 = 33 and the LSB is 1101101 = 109. We strip off all but the leftmost 3 bits of the LSB, resulting in 110 = 6. Now your resulting ten bits are 0100001 110 = 270. Or more simply, the main part is 33 (the MSB) * 8 = 264. The remainder is 109 (the LSB) / 16 = 6.8125 → 6, and 264 + 6 = 270.

The point being, the MSB (the primary 7 bits) is the big player here. It’s like a coarse tuning over the whole spectrum of 0…1023 of your Korg. It’s the numbers that matter, the big players, the stuff to the left of the decimal point so to speak. The LSB then provides the fine-tuning, though most of it (all but 3 bits) are discarded.

Source: Reddit: “High Resolution” (14-Bit) MIDI with hardware?

Thanks for this info, I guess what I’m asking is what is a specific piece of hardware that correctly implements this / would in theory work with hypno as host? How does mapping a parameter like this work? Is there an actual official standard defined for this? (sounds like its not which is what makes me hesitant to implement this)

I currently test midi with a VCMC and would need to put together some kind of test setup to make this happen

Also with mapped video pages Hypno will have already assigned up to cc 48

  • Faderfox hardware controllers, e.g. EC4 → Faderfox
    But be aware of the fact that these controllers uses a physical encoder… there is a hardware limitation or to put in a question: how many rotations do you need for a “full cycle” (270 degree) through over 16k steps? (a full encoder rotation equals maybe 12 steps?!.. u get the idea. there is a hardware limiting factor! please be aware of that)
    SOURCE: Forum

  • Blokas midihub → Blokas

  • Expert Sleepers General CV → Expert Sleepers

  • MAX/MSP & Ableton Live → MAX/MSP & Ableton Live
    Hi-Res (14-Bit) MIDI in Ableton Live

I think this questions was already answered in my previous post. Am I right?

MIDI 1.0 is the (old) defined standard, but MIDI 2.0 was introduced in 2020… It will take time for everyone to use this fairly new standard. MIDI.ORG → 2.0

Not every setting have to be “hi-res”…

Thank you for those product examples I will study those.

1 Like